Kevin Zhang Interview – Dropshipping Scaling Strategy with Facebook Ads

Kevin Zhang:

One thing is the mindset change. I’m always focused on not only growth opportunities but opportunities that can penetrate my organization and take away the things I love.

Alex:

Hey guys, we have a very special guest here at the Affiliate World Asia. So this is Kevin Zhang.

Kevin Zhang:

How’s it going guys?

Alex:

Kevin is one of the speakers, very glad to have him on camera because we’ve communicated on a dinner we had before the conference. We just chatted there and he’s such a wealth of knowledge and also like one of his basically his skill is eCommerce business with his partner from… Can you tell me your numbers? Like what’s?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, so in our first year doing eCommerce, we went from $0 to $20 million in sales.

Alex:

It’s very good. And also in a way that it’s obviously drop shipping overall there’s like a low barrier entry and a lot of people jumping on it. But the way Kevin approaches this is some more like professional real business building and he was also talking about the infrastructure, kind of like how to make the business actual business.

Alex:

Because the opportunity itself is huge. But then in a way there are some people, for example even if you have small Hamburger shop and you have McDonald’s, right? Which is a real business. So I’m very excited to talk with Kevin and ask him some of the main infrastructural things and also some of the also marketing things that he’s utilized.

Alex:

So in terms of the infrastructure, Kevin, so what are the main kinds of things that you see that most drop shippers are missing when they’re building these businesses?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, definitely. So first off, super happy to be here. Alex is someone I admire and look up to a lot. Definitely a great figure in the space. To answer that question I think in general infrastructure is something that dropshippers don’t like to focus on because it’s not sexy, right?

Kevin Zhang:

Everyone in this industry is obsessed with like big numbers on Shopify, playing the algorithm. That’s kind of what’s hot, that’s what’s trending. That’s what you want to focus on. I think the biggest thing that dropshippers miss out on is scaling I think has two components to it. There’s quality, which is how much time and effort you focus on one concept or each concept individually.

Kevin Zhang:

And there’s also quantity, right? Which is how many concepts can you actually build out? So let’s take it that sites, I think a lot of dropshippers spent hours and hours and hours and hours once they get a profitable site, tweaking the sort of the conversion rate and doing multivariate testing, which is important, but they’re spending hours and hours and a lot of money just like trying to move their conversion rate dial up like 0.01%, and that’s where they focus on how doing. But you can have one site that is $40,000 a day in sales or you could have four sites that do $10,000 in sales, right?

Kevin Zhang:

And what I’ve done is my first batch of profits when I first started off in eCommerce and in the year of 2018 so I started August, 2018 through December, 2018. We did around $5 million in sales, but we only actually had $35,000 in profit. That’s because all the money I was making we were putting all back in the business, we were building infrastructure. We hired a whole team in China. We had an office building in the Philippines for customer support. We’re private labeling everything. We were figuring out how to manufacture things to be better, right? I didn’t make any money back. Normally people are buying like a flashy car and they want to be a guru already or something. And we build this infrastructure and then by February, 2019 we have five sites. They’re on their way to seven figures, right? And that’s because we built the infrastructure, then everything else is plug and chug.

Kevin Zhang:

So answer that question, what people miss is you want to build a system where you no longer have to build your own stores anymore. So right now we’re at a pace where we can build a really nice store and every single week and we fail 80% of the time, but every single month our goal is to have a new eCommerce concept that can do six, seven, eight figures every single month that joins our portfolio. And that’s something that’s sort of like a mindset change, right? How do you take the money I make in the beginning from my first site and instead of falling in love with this first site and just making sure that it’s better and better and better, how do I actually reinvest my business so I build a machine that can keep turning new concepts.

Alex:

Because over like there are a lot of different products, right? Then for every product there is a certain life cycle.

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, exactly.

Alex:

No products that kind of like, there are some products that leave longer than others, but overall it might go in cycles or it might go like for example, the product just has a life cycle and then it just dies off. So you have to be aware of that and be prepared to kind of like launch new projects and have the infrastructure. So in terms of your infrastructure, so use your team fully remote?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah. So we have 60 team members and this covers even warehouse people, customer support, all these people. We have 60 people I would say like sort of high level skill sets. Like building stores, actually making creatives. We actually have like 20 people that are doing this and we have like very intelligent Americans getting paid as much as like six figures that are building out these stores and overseeing this like project managers.

Kevin Zhang:

So that’s sort of our concept and everyone is remotely working and a lot of people that actually were able to pick up in the talent market are very smart people that probably could get a great corporate job, but they just want to live a remote lifestyle, right? Like some people want to travel to a new country every month. They can’t go work for Google or Apple or Goldman Sachs because they can never accommodate lifestyle. We scoop them up in the town market, we pay them what they would still be making at these corporate jobs and they crush it. Absolutely crush it. A lot of these people are smarter than me, right. And they crush it for us. So our team is fully remote and it’s definitely something that’s just easier and easier to achieve with technology. We have Skype, Zoom meetings and we run our business that way.

Alex:

Awesome. So I mean overall your type of thing is different from 99% of everyone who does drop shipping or business whatsoever. So how did we get to this, right? Because obviously you told me that you were not born into a rich family or you haven’t had education. What was your evolution?

Kevin Zhang:

I think that there’s two things. A character trait of mine is I like thinking about all the worst things that can happen to me. I’m someone that just, I feel a lot of worries in my head, right? And I like to take time every single week, even when I first started and thinking about even when times are going well, no, obviously I’m someone that feels very blessed and humbled and happy by the life I get to live.

Kevin Zhang:

But still every single week I’m thinking about all these forces I could take everything away from me. And every single week I tried to take steps, not just growing my business, but trying to mitigate more and more of these risks. Right? So a big example is I built a legal team before we ever had any lawsuits and before we ever even got sued or having any problems. And it was a huge blessing because one of my close friends from high school actually ripped off one of my brands completely. And we were able to serve a DMCA to him, and throw him into a lawsuit and we took him out of the market. Right? And that’s just something, if I didn’t become proactive and have a legal team before that even happened, I would never know how to do that. Right? So one thing is the mindset change.

Kevin Zhang:

I’m always focused on not only growth opportunities, but opportunities that can penetrate my organization and take away the things I love. And the number two is I came into drop shipping thinking about as a business where I think 90% of people come in thinking it’s a get rich quick scheme or a way to make income. And those are two different things. A way to make income is you’re fooling around the computer. Now you’re clicking buttons and you’re making a lot of money. That’s how most people think. I thought about it as, this is just an easy way for someone. Like you said, that’s not rich, doesn’t come from a big background, just still be a business owner, but it’s still a business. You’re giving products to customers. So you have to make sure the products your customers get are shitty, right? You’re delivering products to customers.

Kevin Zhang:

You have to make sure that your delivery time is reasonable, right? You’re advertising the customers, you have to make sure your messaging is good and on point and know your website is a storefront. It’s like if you own a physical store, you need a nice storefront and you got a theme, you got to make sure it’s clean as the same thing for a website. So I always thought about drop shipping as sort of an easy way into business, not an easy way to make money. And I think that’s the mindset that a lot of people disconnected with.

Alex:

Awesome. So any particular themes you would recommend or that you found effective and highly converting?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah. What’d you say?

Alex:

Themes like for Shopify, for example?

Kevin Zhang:

Themes?

Alex:

Yeah.

Kevin Zhang:

Themes, right? Yeah. So I guess one big one we really district theme, something that’s very easy, especially if you’re just starting out district theme is super easy to sort plug and chug.

Kevin Zhang:

They’re easy to build we really like Turbo as well, that’s one that does really well for us. And also Prestige. So my drop shipping is a little different from Alex. He does a lot of single product stuff still branded, everything’s nice. We do niches, right? So most of our stores have these 100 products. And our goal is when you go onto one of our sites, you can’t even tell it’s drop shipping. So let’s say we’re selling outerwear you couldn’t really tell the difference between us and North face except for the fact that we’re a different brand.

Kevin Zhang:

So we retake product photos, everything’s very nice. Collection pictures are very nice. We take lifestyle photos, we invest a lot of money and time into building something that feels nice and has a brand feel around it. And those themes work really well with these niche concepts. It’s probably a little different with single products.

Alex:

And for your creative, is it made in China or is it made in other… Where is it created mostly.

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, so the first one, when we first started out, we’re taking just all the express images and we were photoshopping them heavily and making creatives from that. Right? So we’re doing slideshows and usually still images and also something that a lot of people don’t do, stock photos. Stock photos are amazing. Let’s say you’re selling leather jackets, you can actually just search leather jackets on stock photo and you’ll find a handsome guy in a leather jacket and you can put your products on top of that photo and your customers think, wow, this is a real brand that invested money in this model.

Kevin Zhang:

It can be a scam, right? Because who wished drop shipping was a business invest this time and money into this photo shoot. Right? But they don’t even know the difference. And it’s crazy. Sometimes we have a stock photo, let’s say we’re selling winter clothing and the guy’s jacket is orange, but our product is blue. It’s obviously not the product, but people will still like, whoa shit. They still want to buy it. So that’s something we really do. And then we also use AliExpress creatives. Once a site has scaled it’s proven concept, then we’re a lot more willing to invest in some shooting, some photography. I live in Los Angeles. So that stuff is pretty cheap. You have a lot of movie makers and models out there and then that’s sort of when we kind of legitimize things.

Kevin Zhang:

But what’s crazy is that even some of the creatives we invest to create are actually worst performers in our stock photos. So you never know. Money doesn’t always mean it’s better performance.

Alex:

One of the hacks has shared with me, and this does the same because we’ve tried it on that dinner and I remember sharing the sizing, right? Because the sizing, especially if you do drop shipping. You do drop shipping from China. Chinese sizes are not as the same as-

Kevin Zhang:

No, way smaller.

Alex:

But you found a way to tackle that. Can you elaborate on that?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah. So what we do in the beginning is when we’re testing concept, we downsize by two. So if something is 2XL in China, it’s actually going to be a X, like large in the United States.

Kevin Zhang:

Right? So we downsize in the beginning and what we do as the moment things get traction actually we get everyone to measure the sizing and our factories and give an accurate sizing guide. So in the beginning, even though we don’t have the ability to re-manufacturer, we want to spend the money, we manufacturer putting a good sizing guide on every single product page, no one can complain, right? Because you just said the bottom, bold text, we say, please refer to the size and guide for sizing. Then they know their size, right? Or if they don’t know their size we have a very lenient customer support policy. So we accept free exchanges for sizing issues and we store that in a US warehouse. It will get reprocessed, rebranded re-tag and we can ship it out to customers and the inventory in the US warehouse, we actually save for very pissed off people.

Kevin Zhang:

That are super pissed on email so we can send them the product and day. Some guy is like hey, I’m going to sue you, your whole family and your mom, where’s my product? We’re going to be, oh shit, right, we’re going to give you the product and next day, right then you’re going to be a lot happier. We negate a chargeback. We definitely negate a BDB complaints and once something has traction, we’re monitoring sizing all the time. And our long-term goal is we actually go back to the factory remanufactured things and us sizing in the long-term for all of our sites that lasts at least a month or more. We’re re-manufacturing everything, making sure the product quality is good. And also sizing is standardized.

Alex:

And how do you tackle like there’s obviously this season, winter time. So obviously jackets and oldest stuff. It’s kind of like on a trend then. So do you shut down though those stores?

Kevin Zhang:

So in general one is it’s good to play multiple geographies, right? So the US has only 60% of all our sales. 40% come from a lot of different diverse geographies. One big one recently for us it’s very good as Brazil because Brazil is kind of opposite to the United States. And it’s a very, very big market. 300 million people growing middle-class, very good. And they haven’t even heard of drop shipping.

Alex:

There are credit cards.

Kevin Zhang:

So they take cash on delivery on those, couple letters. So we spent months figuring that out on process payments. We spent a month figuring out a phone team to call them. So we actually call our customers like you got to pay. And we got a recovery time in the beginning from 10% to 60% figure out a script.

Kevin Zhang:

It’s even like a sales script. It’s, hey, if you really want the price now we can only guarantee it for a day. You better go to the post office right now and pay. That’s infrastructure. So multiple geographies will balance out seasonality. And then for our very seasonal stores, we do shut them down usually. So I do a lot of outerwear type of stuff. And usually in the summer, those are our slower months, so we’ll kind of shut them down in the summer.

Kevin Zhang:

But again, we’re launching a new concept every one or two weeks. So we try to diversify our portfolio to get things, some things are non-seasonal but you’d be surprised even a lot of our jackets and stuff, people are still buying over in the summer. We only had one site that we had to shut down in the summer out of all the ones we run.

Kevin Zhang:

So even jackets, if you play around with the messaging and the sales you can be clearance sale or off-season sale, people will actually still buy.

Alex:

Cool. And so in terms of so kind of the project managers, so you’re keeping structure, right? So you have the project manager, so they’re kind of you have some KPIs for them. How do they kind of, what’s kind of performance structure and stuff?

Kevin Zhang:

So I have sort of three rules to automating something. Number one I have to have done it and I understand what good looks because I’ve been doing it so.

Alex:

I think that’s what a lot of people are missing. They want to like, oh, I mean there’s this guy, he seems to know about this stuff. So I just-

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, exactly.

Alex:

And then just don’t reinforce it. Don’t even ask, okay, how does it work? They wouldn’t do their own research.

Kevin Zhang:

Exactly. And there’s a quote that’s if serving is below you, leading is above you. Right. Which is I started out answering customer support emails myself, so I know how much a human being should be able to answer within an hour because I was there and I’m like, okay, I’m pretty smart. I know English, I know this is how many emails you need an hour. So that’s the KPIs. So number one, I have to have done anything I’ve automated. Even Photoshop, I suck at Photoshop, but at least I know the basics of it. So I know what something is a good creative or bad creative.

Kevin Zhang:

Number two I hire and train very slowly, but I fire really quick. So I’m spending a lot of time and resources investing in my managers, especially in the beginning to really get them up to speed. I’m babysitting them, calling them every single day and after two weeks, three weeks of me investing a lot of time. If they still can’t do it then I fire them, I look for the next person. Right? And the third thing is I really look for people that have sort of ownership mentality, not just carrying out the responsibilities. So you could have a very good VA that can do their job very well, but if they don’t solve problems and they’re not proactive, they’re not good for my organization. And it’s very obvious to tell which type of VA, here’s an example. One VA is like hey Kevin, here’s a customer support problem. I don’t know what to do. Can you tell me what to do?

Kevin Zhang:

The second VA goes, hey Kevin, I had a problem already handled it, did I handle it the right way? Can you criticize? Do now, ask for an apology letter. Even, I don’t care if someone screws up, at least they had the drive to do it. And those are the people I’m looking for. So in terms of KPIs, I have very clear KPIs because they’re based on what I was able to do in those KPIs, right? I have someone that led my expansion into Brazil. Obviously I ran my business for so long I know exactly how much time it should take for him to figure out a payment processor, hire customer support. He actually flew to Brazil to figure this stuff out. Right? And I know because I’ve done it before in the United States obviously.

Kevin Zhang:

So I think those factors combined give me really good managers and I’m very blessed that at the high level I’ve such a talented team really frees up my time to think about growth and scaling.

Alex:

And so those managers then hire people underneath them or?

Kevin Zhang:

So hiring is all automated for me, so right now for example, in customer support, I’ve an office in the Philippines, right? When we scale all I have to do is just give my projections to my customer support manager. She knows, okay with X dollars in sales. This means this many tickets because it’s usually the same, right? And then she’ll be, oh crap, I need more staff. She’ll actually go onto the streets of the Philippines to hire more people or even go on Upwork, hire and train them. I don’t even have to worry about that.

Kevin Zhang:

And that works the same for graphic design, that’s the same for order fulfillment, all of these different things. Obviously my warehouse in China my supplier can just hire these people. So that part is automated. I don’t have to think about hiring. And they can even fire as well so they’re very good at the job. Again, I paid them a lot of money. My customer support agent, she’s in the Philippines, she makes six figures and people would say I’m crazy. They say, Kevin you can pay her $20 an hour. She’d be very happy. That might be true. But she’s managing customer support in multiple languages.

Alex:

Oh, wow.

Kevin Zhang:

She got my chargeback rate. My chargeback rate is 0.2%, she organizes shifts. We have four to six hours response times. Right? She’s negotiating refunds. In Brazil we needed a sales script to get people to pay because in Brazil you place an order and then you have to go to the post office to actually buy it. We were at 10% retrieving orders. She brought us up by testing all these different scripts to 60% so is it worth it to pay someone that $100,000 a year even though maybe I could get away with less. Of course I always think that I want to pay people here even if they’re here and hope that if they’re the right type of person, they bring their value up there.

Alex:

So your background, you told me about your background, you were pretty much you had a choice to go kind of McKinsey, yeah. Kind like your background, you had some kind of an education that allows you to think this way.

Kevin Zhang:

so I think I was actually very lucky compared to a lot of people in this space. I went to a great university.

Alex:

Harvard?

Kevin Zhang:

I went to Vanderbilt. So it’s a top 15 school in the United States. Right. And then after that I had a summer job at McKinsey. And what McKinsey does for you guys don’t know, it’s a global consulting firm. They help big businesses and governments solve big problems, US government, Russian government, Chinese government, they’re helping these big guys. The one thing I learned at McKinsey, I was only three months there is how they built processes. Because whether you’re solving a big problem for Toys“R”Us or you’re solving a medium problem for a small organization, our team sizes are always four people. So how can four people solve big, big problems? And I saw how they were making these processes right and being efficient. And that’s the one thing I learned from that corporate background.

Kevin Zhang:

I think I take that to drop shipping when a lot of people just don’t know how to do that. Right? Because I saw firsthand this is the most efficient organization in the world. This is how they manage teams. This is how you specialize. How many Kinsey solves problems is they take a big problem. Let’s say Toys“R”Us wants to go to China. One guy’s responsible for doing market analytics. One guy’s responsible to figure out what’s the culture problems? One guy’s figuring out logistics. One guy’s figuring out the financials and everyone drives value at the end. So that’s how I like to structure my teams.

Alex:

Four people. So pretty much you said four people. So whatever clients I have they only dedicate like four people.

Kevin Zhang:

So obviously big clients are bigger problems. You have multiple teams. One team is only four people, so that’s crazy, right? So let’s say Toys“R”Us for example, they’re bankrupt right now, but let’s say they want to go to China, right?

Kevin Zhang:

So one team is in charge of let’s say we’re going to figure out how to beat the competitors already selling toys and that’s four people. That’s a big problem to think about, four people. Another team is like okay, how do we actually manufacture and get our goods over to China in a cost efficient way?

Kevin Zhang:

Again, four people solved that problem. Another one is, okay, the Chinese government they’re not too fun to play with. How do we bribe or whatever to get in the right hands, get good relationships, four people solve that. So I saw four people, four people, four be solving these problems. And that’s where my organization has a lot of specialization. It’s a lot of managers on top of it because each team is being led by someone and a partner leads multiple teams and a senior partner is leading multiple partners. That’s how they solve these big problems. And I tried to do that with my organization. But I’m blessed I had that experience.

Alex:

I think that’s-

Kevin Zhang:

Invaluable. And I took it. So I took that experience and I applied at drop shipping. I think that’s part of the reason why I had such crazy results. And also why even day one and drop shipping when I was making no money, I knew reinvest, reinvest, reinvest, fill infrastructure, write $5 million in sales. You guys know drop shipping margins. I made a decent amount of money. I only made $35,000 in that first 5 million because I put it all back in my business.

Alex:

Yeah, if you made even 10% margin but you invest it back.

Kevin Zhang:

Exactly. You invest it all back.

Alex:

That’s a totally different type of thinking.

Kevin Zhang:

Different types of thinking.

Alex:

Another thing that I got from you was from being manufacturers. So dealing with manufacturers and so you basically get then you’re negotiating, this ones. Can you tell me your perspective?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah. So I have a team on the ground in China. They speak Chinese, they’re Mandarin. So we have a team that does product research. So they’re spying on all of your ads or everyone’s ads. And they’re saying, okay, what can we sell next? Right? What niches? We’re always focused on niches, so what niches are doing well? Is there some viral products we can make a niche around? And if we find something that we like then my team on the ground in China goes to six different factories and gets cost quotes, and we’ll figure out which factories can make this. Right?

Kevin Zhang:

Different qualities as well. And they’ll quote us and they’ll say, okay, these are the prices we’ll give you. And then now we can play them with each other. Especially have a good track record, right? They know that you’re a big player, you’ve done a lot of sales, that you have a reputation. It’s even easier to negotiate. And at that point we’re able to get very, very good cost of goods sold. So give you some contacts all expressed. Sometimes it’s as high as three times more expensive than the costs I’m paying. Right? So usually AliExpress, I actually, because I know the inside, because I have a team in China, AliExpress is usually a middleman on top of a middleman that doesn’t speak English, on top of a middleman that sources from the factory to the factory.

Alex:

Wow.

Kevin Zhang:

Versus for me it’s just my team and the factory. Right? And you can see there’s just not that much money changing hands. Right? So I’m able to get very good costs of goods sold. And usually what I like to do is I bring my costs up to even lower 20% lower than AliExpress, including better quality, all the branding and faster logistics, 10 days, the United States, five days to continental Europe and 12 days to Australian and Canada.

Alex:

That’s pretty good. So the combination of obviously, so if I were dude, because I’m dealing with a lot of the drop shippers, the majority of them saying marketing, it’s 90%.

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, exactly. That’s what I’m saying is that mentality, get rich quick scheme on business.

Alex:

How the seller then everything else kind of secondary.

Kevin Zhang:

I hire a VA or an agent.

Alex:

Yeah. So the way you think about it is just totally different. So basically cutting the inefficiencies with ideally dealing directly with manufacturing and that’s where you want to be.

Kevin Zhang:

I would say if you’re doing at least seven figures in sales. Even if you decided to go to China for a month and a translator followed you around and you just experience like Shin Jen, this manufacturing region, you talk to some people and you just really lived it. That will be one of the most beneficial months of your lives because you’ll really understand what’s going on behind the scenes. I didn’t have to do that because I already speak Mandarin, that’s a blessing I have from my parents. But my team was able to sort of feel that out for me. Right. And you’ll also be surprised, my team in China, and this is something that I probably didn’t mention in this interview yet, it was my AliExpress supplier that I acquired, right?

Kevin Zhang:

So the Asian AliExpress that I was buying so much volume from either he messaged him in Chinese and I was like, hey, can I have your reach hat? And I talked to him on the phone, right? And you could do this with translation. And I said, hey, I want you to only supply from me and also give me all the benefits. So what this agent had is he had a facility, right? And he was basically sourcing from factories to his facility and then posting an AliExpress, right? So then I actually acquired that capability just from my supplier. And I’m sure a lot of your suppliers from AliExpress when they’re seeing you’re doing big volume, they’re very open to that sort of relationship because it means more business for them, more stability. They’d rather work with one person that will stay there and generate and grow with them, than work with a thousand different merchants every single month that are getting banned every other second, especially in today’s environment. Right.

Alex:

That’s a good man. So solving inefficiencies, building your team was structured, like compensating your people properly and then marketing and of this obvious, right? So in terms of marketing, anything that you did differently. So obviously your pictures, your creatives, you positioned the product differently. I see that’s a key.

Kevin Zhang:

Huge difference.

Alex:

And then in terms of email, do we utilize email on this page?

Kevin Zhang:

I use email. I would say that’s a weak point that we’re not very, very good at. So we run a heavy discount model and obviously the more discounts you do on the front end, the less effective your email backend is. But our big email strategy actually focuses around holidays.

Kevin Zhang:

So we like to save emails. So here’s a little golden nugget for all of you guys that I learned from someone that’s very good with emails. For most email servers after three consecutive emails of them not opening it, it goes to their spam. So that really changes your mindset of how you operate with emails, right? Because you don’t want it to go to spam before a big sale. So we don’t email our customers except with order confirmation and tracking, we like to email them only on big holidays and build a massive list and we blast them on the holidays. So then people are also a lot more willing to open their email on holidays because they’re looking for other deals.

Kevin Zhang:

If Polo, Ralph Lauren and Brooks Brothers are sending them 30% off, they’re already clicking on deals, you’re going to see your deal as well. It was just a random day they’re kind of just, oh, this is just spam. Right? So we focus on, so on Black Friday we send around 400,000 fresh emails that have never been sent before aside from order confirmation, order tracking. And that was one of the big reasons for our big numbers. We had $450,000 in sales in a single day, Black Fridays. So emails, that’s what we do for emails. But it’s definitely not something that I’m super good at. But I also think with my discount model emails are hard to really do well with.

Alex:

Awesome. Kevin, thank you so much for sharing this. How do people find you? How do people follow you?

Kevin Zhang:

Yeah, definitely. So you can follow me on Instagram @KevinZhangofficial. It’s Kevin Z-H-A-N-G official. You can DM me or you can also go to kevinzhang.com, and that’s my personal website and Alex it was great talking to you.

Kevin Zhang:

I respect and admire everything you do, especially your community and the education group. I think Alex and I are so passionate about helping other people achieve what we’ve been able to achieve. And it’s good to see someone you leading that charge.

Alex:

Yeah. Thank you, Kevin. Thank you very much, I’ve learned a lot from you in the last few days. So yeah, guys learn from Kevin as much as possible, follow him, just consume everything because the way he thinks is just totally different. And if you follow it, if you actually apply it, you’ll build an empire.

Kevin Zhang:

Awesome.

Alex:

Thank you very much, Kevin.

Kevin Zhang:

That’s great.

Alex:

Yeah. Thank you.

Kevin Zhang:

Thank you.